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ebahapo
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Message 3580 - Posted: 6 Aug 2006 | 5:58:24 UTC
Last modified: 6 Aug 2006 | 5:59:55 UTC

So far, two projects have added support for AMD64: SETI sends the x86 application and SIMAP, a native x86-64 application. Would you consider supporting windows_amd64 and x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu similarly?

Thanks.

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Message 3582 - Posted: 6 Aug 2006 | 20:24:58 UTC - in response to Message 3580.

Augustine wrote:
So far, two projects have added support for AMD64... Would you consider supporting windows_amd64 and x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu similarly?


This sounds like something interesting to investigate, but I do not have a 64bit machine, and I do not know if my compliers can cross-compile for one.

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Message 3583 - Posted: 7 Aug 2006 | 6:12:56 UTC - in response to Message 3582.
Last modified: 7 Aug 2006 | 6:13:56 UTC

Wormholio wrote:
This sounds like something interesting to investigate, but I do not have a 64bit machine, and I do not know if my compliers can cross-compile for one.

You might try http://devcenter.amd.com/ to gain access to AMD64 systems so that you can port Pirates and Einstein applications to AMD64.

HTH
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Message 3591 - Posted: 14 Aug 2006 | 19:16:49 UTC - in response to Message 3583.

Wormholio wrote:
This sounds like something interesting to investigate, but I do not have a 64bit machine, and I do not know if my compliers can cross-compile for one.

BTW, just let me know if I can be of any help. ;-)

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Message 3934 - Posted: 20 Sep 2006 | 22:59:22 UTC - in response to Message 3580.

Augustine wrote:
So far, two projects have added support for AMD64: SETI sends the x86 application and SIMAP, a native x86-64 application. Would you consider supporting windows_amd64 and x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu similarly?

HashClash now supports AMD64 with a 32-bit Linux application and Chess960 with a 64-bit Linux application...
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Message 3967 - Posted: 27 Sep 2006 | 19:57:19 UTC - in response to Message 3934.

Augustine wrote:
Augustine wrote:
So far, two projects have added support for AMD64: SETI sends the x86 application and SIMAP, a native x86-64 application. Would you consider supporting windows_amd64 and x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu similarly?

HashClash now supports AMD64 with a 32-bit Linux application and Chess960 with a 64-bit Linux application...

HashClash now supports AMD64 on Windows with a 32-bit application...
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Message 3974 - Posted: 28 Sep 2006 | 23:16:17 UTC

FWIW, running two instances of the client, one the 32-bit client, the other, the 64-bit client, on the same 4-core system, but limiting each client to 2 cores, I can compare the relative performance of 32-bit and 64-bit SIMAP's HMMER: the 64-bit version is about 7% faster.

By enabling vectorization (supported by default on AMD64), the SIMAP developers observed other 8% improvement.

That's a potential performance improvement of 15% when porting the project application to AMD64.

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Message 4013 - Posted: 10 Oct 2006 | 15:23:36 UTC - in response to Message 3967.
Last modified: 10 Oct 2006 | 15:23:57 UTC

So far, two projects have added support for AMD64: SETI sends the x86 application and SIMAP, a native x86-64 application. Would you consider supporting windows_amd64 and x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu similarly?

HashClash now supports AMD64 with a 32-bit Linux application and Chess960 with a 64-bit Linux application...

HashClash now supports AMD64 on Windows with a 32-bit application...

Guess what? Leiden Classical now supports AMD64 on Linux with a 32-bit application. ;-)

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Message 4074 - Posted: 15 Nov 2006 | 15:59:49 UTC - in response to Message 3582.

Wormholio wrote:
Augustine wrote:
So far, two projects have added support for AMD64... Would you consider supporting windows_amd64 and x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu similarly?


This sounds like something interesting to investigate, but I do not have a 64bit machine, and I do not know if my compliers can cross-compile for one.

One can build GCC with the --enable-targets=all (default for x86-64) configuration option and then GCC can compile for either x86 or x86-64 through the -m32 or -m64 compilation options.

WRT to Windows, just download the Platform SDK from Microsoft. It contains the AMD64 command-line compiler. Actually, it's a cross-compiler, because it itself is a 32-bit application, so one can do all the building on a 32-bit system. For details, see http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/30887.pdf.

If I can be of any help testing the resulting AMD64 applications, just let me know.

HTH

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Message 4085 - Posted: 17 Nov 2006 | 12:55:02 UTC - in response to Message 4074.

Augustine wrote:
WRT to Windows, just download the Platform SDK from Microsoft. It contains the AMD64 command-line compiler. Actually, it's a cross-compiler, because it itself is a 32-bit application, so one can do all the building on a 32-bit system.

I have been meaning to update my SDK anyway, so I will see about this when I do, or when I set up another build machine.
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Message 4906 - Posted: 6 Feb 2007 | 16:02:19 UTC - in response to Message 4013.

So far, two projects have added support for AMD64: SETI sends the x86 application and SIMAP, a native x86-64 application. Would you consider supporting windows_amd64 and x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu similarly?

HashClash now supports AMD64 with a 32-bit Linux application and Chess960 with a 64-bit Linux application...

HashClash now supports AMD64 on Windows with a 32-bit application...

Guess what? Leiden Classical now supports AMD64 on Linux with a 32-bit application. ;-)

Now Malaria, Docking and RieselSieve support Linux AMD64 clients by sending the 32-bit application and ABC ß, a 64-bit application.
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Message 4907 - Posted: 6 Feb 2007 | 19:12:32 UTC

What difference, if any, would there be in running the 32 bit client and 32 bit applications, or running a 64 bit client (someone has to build this) and then running 32 bit applications with it?

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Message 4909 - Posted: 6 Feb 2007 | 20:52:12 UTC - in response to Message 4907.

What difference, if any, would there be in running the 32 bit client and 32 bit applications, or running a 64 bit client (someone has to build this) and then running 32 bit applications with it?

I am not sure I understood your question, but the idea is to run 64-bit applications. Projects such as SIMAP, Chess960 and ABC reported significant performance improvements by doing so.

Fine. However, not all projects are willing to port their applications to 64 bits for different reasons. Then, in order that those clients running 64 bits can contribute to other projects too, sending the 32-bit application would allow a project to benefit from their volunteered computing power.

I did propose here that a x86-64 client could optionally fall back to requesting the x86 application if a project didn't support it, but it fell on deaf ears.

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Message 4910 - Posted: 6 Feb 2007 | 21:09:09 UTC - in response to Message 4906.

So far, two projects have added support for AMD64: SETI sends the x86 application and SIMAP, a native x86-64 application. Would you consider supporting windows_amd64 and x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu similarly?

HashClash now supports AMD64 with a 32-bit Linux application and Chess960 with a 64-bit Linux application...

HashClash now supports AMD64 on Windows with a 32-bit application...

Guess what? Leiden Classical now supports AMD64 on Linux with a 32-bit application. ;-)

Now Malaria, Docking and RieselSieve support Linux AMD64 clients by sending the 32-bit application and ABC ß, a 64-bit application.

RieselSieve supports AMD64 Windows clients by sending the 32-bit application too.

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Message 4911 - Posted: 7 Feb 2007 | 15:51:18 UTC

I'm happy to see that several projects have started this week to support AMD64. Here's an updated list:


  • Native 64-bit Application Sent to AMD64 Clients

    • SIMAP (Linux)
    • Chess960 (Linux)
    • ABC ß (Linux)
    • Predictor (Linux)


  • 32-bit Application Sent to AMD64 Clients

    • SETI & SETI ß (Linux)
    • HashClash (Linux & Windows)
    • Leiden (Linux)
    • Malaria (Linux)
    • Docking (Linux)
    • RieselSieve (Linux & Windows)
    • WCG (Linux soon)



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Message 4912 - Posted: 7 Feb 2007 | 17:58:48 UTC

Captain, could you PLEASE put the TRIM_THIS_quote feature back?

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Message 4913 - Posted: 7 Feb 2007 | 18:14:53 UTC - in response to Message 4912.

Captain, could you PLEASE put the TRIM_THIS_quote feature back?


It's on my list. So are other things, but I want that and the other features back too. .-)

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Message 4922 - Posted: 13 Feb 2007 | 19:10:03 UTC

FYI, the new x86-64 Linux client, version 5.8.11, can be found at boinc_5.8.11_x86_64-pc-linux-gnu.gz. Again, the x64 Windows client, version 5.4.11, by Crunch3r, at boinc_5.4.11_windows_amd64.zip.

For more information, see BoincStats Forum.

HTH

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Message 4924 - Posted: 14 Feb 2007 | 15:47:50 UTC - in response to Message 4922.

FYI, the new x86-64 Linux client, version 5.8.11, can be found at boinc_5.8.11_x86_64-pc-linux-gnu.gz. Again, the x64 Windows client, version 5.4.11, by Crunch3r, at boinc_5.4.11_windows_amd64.zip.

For more information, see BoincStats Forum.

HTH


How do we know that we can trust these? How do we know that the benchmarks are correct, or that they claim the "right" amount of credit? What is the "right" amount of credit for 64bit apps?

I'm just a bit cautious. After all, you have been known to consort with pirates. .-)

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Message 4925 - Posted: 14 Feb 2007 | 16:25:39 UTC

I am not sure he understood your question. ;-)
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Message 4927 - Posted: 14 Feb 2007 | 17:29:59 UTC - in response to Message 4924.

How do we know that we can trust these? How do we know that the benchmarks are correct, or that they claim the "right" amount of credit? What is the "right" amount of credit for 64bit apps?

How to assign credits is an issue that goes beyond the client, as many projects go through hoops on how to define them fairly.

On trust, the only way I can think of is through peer review: compile the client yourself with GCC 4.1.1 using the same options I did, "-O3 -ftree-vectorize", and compare the results yourself.

Then again, how is anyone supposed to trust your peer review, Capt'n? .-D

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Message 4931 - Posted: 16 Feb 2007 | 15:45:27 UTC - in response to Message 4922.

FYI, the new x86-64 Linux client, version 5.8.11, can be found at boinc_5.8.11_x86_64-pc-linux-gnu.gz. Again, the x64 Windows client, version 5.4.11, by Crunch3r, at boinc_5.4.11_windows_amd64.zip.

As WCG uses HTTPS in the communications with the client, a file with public encryption keys is needed. Download this new x86-64 Linux client, still version 5.8.11, boinc_5.8.11_x86_64-pc-linux-gnu.tgz and copy all the files in the tar-ball to your system's working BOINC directory.

For more information, see BoincStats Forum.

HTH
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Message 4932 - Posted: 16 Feb 2007 | 23:52:18 UTC
Last modified: 17 Feb 2007 | 0:06:45 UTC

Hello, BOINC World!


  • Native 64-bit Application Sent to AMD64 Clients

    • SIMAP (Linux)
    • Chess960 (Linux)
    • ABC (Linux)
    • ABC ß (Linux & Windows)
    • Predictor (Linux)


  • 32-bit Application Sent to AMD64 Clients

    • SETI & SETI ß (Linux)
    • HashClash (Linux & Windows)
    • Leiden (Linux)
    • Malaria (Linux)
    • Docking (Linux)
    • RieselSieve (Linux & Windows)
    • WCG (Linux)
    • Pirates (Linux)



.-)

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Message 4933 - Posted: 17 Feb 2007 | 1:00:27 UTC - in response to Message 4927.

How do we know that we can trust these? ...

...

Then again, how is anyone supposed to trust your peer review, Capt'n? .-D


One test we can try is to run some workunits with the 32 bit version sent to the 64 bit clients and see if the credit claims are reasonable.

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Message 4934 - Posted: 17 Feb 2007 | 22:08:41 UTC - in response to Message 4933.

One test we can try is to run some workunits with the 32 bit version sent to the 64 bit clients and see if the credit claims are reasonable.

So, after 366 WUs, how's it looking like? Aye?
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Message 4944 - Posted: 19 Feb 2007 | 13:12:25 UTC - in response to Message 4934.

So, after 366 WUs, how's it looking like? Aye?


I have some concerns. At first glance it appears that workunits run on the 64 bit client are systematically claiming more credit for the same amount of work.

But this first test may have some problems. While it's the same application code, and the 32 bit version to boot, the two I've used for comparison where not built with the same BOINC libraries. And the workunits are very short. If there is some extra startup time for the 64 bit machine to run a 32 bit application that could make the workunit seem to take longer.

So a real test would be to use an app version which has been compiled exactly the same for both platforms, and to use longer workunits to make a better comparison. We'll see if we cannot work that into the schedule.

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Message 4967 - Posted: 20 Feb 2007 | 16:12:38 UTC - in response to Message 4931.

Correction: the x86-64 Linux client, version 5.8.11, can be downloaded from boinc_5.8.11_x86_64-pc-linux-gnu.tgz (make sure to copy both files to the BOINC working directory). The new x64 Windows client, version 5.8.11, by Crunch3r, can be found at boinc_5.8.11_windows_amd64.zip.

Update on project applications:


  • Native 64-bit Application Sent to AMD64 Clients

    • SIMAP (Linux)
    • Chess960 (Linux)
    • ABC (Linux)
    • ABC ß (Linux & Windows)
    • Predictor (Linux)
    • RieselSieve (Linux)


  • 32-bit Application Sent to AMD64 Clients

    • SETI & SETI ß (Linux)
    • HashClash (Linux & Windows)
    • Leiden (Linux)
    • Malaria (Linux)
    • Docking (Linux)
    • RieselSieve (Windows)
    • WCG (Linux)
    • Pirates (Linux)


For more information, see BoincStats Forum.

HTH
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Message 5012 - Posted: 27 Feb 2007 | 16:05:29 UTC - in response to Message 4967.

An updated x86-64 Linux client, version 5.8.15, can be downloaded from boinc_5.8.15_x86_64-pc-linux-gnu.tgz (make sure to read the file "README.x86_64-pc-linux-gnu" in it).

Crunch3r's x64 Windows client, version 5.8.11, can be found at boinc_5.8.11_windows_amd64.zip.

For more information, see BoincStats Forum.

HTH

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Message 5291 - Posted: 6 Apr 2007 | 17:14:34 UTC

Here's the new recommended version for the x86-64 Linux client:


Again, Crunch3r's x64 Windows client can be found at boinc_5.8.11_windows_amd64.zip.

For more information, see BoincStats Forum.

HTH

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Message 6416 - Posted: 13 Aug 2007 | 23:52:38 UTC

Here's a development version of the x86-64 Linux client:


The official client for x64 Windows client can be found at boinc_5.10.13_windows_x86_64.exe.

The BOINC client 5.10 can now get 32-bit applications from projects that haven't added support for AMD64 (e.g., Pirates, QMC, etc), provided that they run at least the BOINC server 5.0.9. However, such AMD64 clients for Windows may not get applications from some projects that supported AMD64 before due to a platform name change, at least until such projects are updated.

For more information, see the BoincStats Forum.

HTH

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Message 6900 - Posted: 17 Dec 2007 | 17:31:05 UTC
Last modified: 17 Dec 2007 | 17:31:38 UTC

Even though there's an official AMD64 client for Linux, it refers to too many dynamic libraries and requires a fairly recent Linux setup to run on.

So, one more time, I'm making available the AMD64 Linux client here. It refers to a minimal set of standard dynamic libraries whose version requirements should be satisfied by Linux systems up to 2 or 3 years old, however it was built with a fairly recent version of GCC, 4.1.2.

The drill's still the same:


The official AMD64 Windows client can be found here.

For more information, see the BoincStats Forum.

HTH

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Message 6902 - Posted: 17 Dec 2007 | 19:49:57 UTC - in response to Message 6900.

Augustine wrote:
Even though there's an official AMD64 client for Linux, it refers to too many dynamic libraries and requires a fairly recent Linux setup to run on.

So, one more time, I'm making available the AMD64 Linux client...


What I would be more interested in are instructions on how to make such a "portable" Linux client. I've tried a few tricks, but not all of it has worked, and I've yet to find clear instructions on how to do this. Not just the steps, mind you, but an explanation of the steps.

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Message 6903 - Posted: 17 Dec 2007 | 20:53:10 UTC - in response to Message 6902.
Last modified: 17 Dec 2007 | 21:02:31 UTC

Wormholio wrote:
What I would be more interested in are instructions on how to make such a "portable" Linux client. I've tried a few tricks, but not all of it has worked, and I've yet to find clear instructions on how to do this. Not just the steps, mind you, but an explanation of the steps.

Here's a variation of what I posted elsewhere:

  • Assuming access to an older Linux distro with GLIBC 2.3, the most common version, probably under VMware, where to build the client on.
  • Assuming that your compiler of choice is in the search path.
  • Assuming a CURL build with static libraries available with its "curl-config" in the search path.
  • Assuming an OpenSSL build with static libraries available.
  • Assuming a CUPS build with static libraries available.
  • Run the configuration scripts:
    $ _autosetup $ CFLAGS="-O3 -ftree-vectorize" CXXFLAGS="-O3 -ftree-vectorize" FFLAGS="-O3 -ftree-vectorize" ./configure --disable-server --build=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu --enable-client-release --with-ssl=[i]path to OpenSSL build[/i]

  • Run "make".
  • Note the command run to link the client, copy it and paste it into the command-line, making the following changes:

    • Replace "-ldl" with "/usr/lib64/libdl.a".
    • Replace "-lnsl" with "/usr/lib64/libnsl.a".
    • Replace "-lcups" with "path to CUPS build/libcups.a".
    • Replace "-lz" with "/usr/lib64/libz.a".


  • Press enter to relink the client.
  • Voilà!


Perhaps someone familiar with "autoconf" could contribute changes to make this automatic, but I ain't.

HTH

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Message 6908 - Posted: 18 Dec 2007 | 14:51:17 UTC - in response to Message 6903.
Last modified: 18 Dec 2007 | 14:52:12 UTC

Augustine wrote:

Here's a variation of what I posted elsewhere:

Thank you. I get the idea. Actually, I have a 64bit machine on the way, so at some point I should just be able to build on that.


* Assuming access to an older Linux distro with GLIBC 2.3, the most common version, probably under VMware, where to build the client on.

Arrrg! and this is the bit I object to. I know Einstein@Home built this way, and using an old version of Linux seems to the the recommended method, but I really find this distasteful. It should be possible to build backward-compatible apps on a newer release of Linux. You may have to get an older version of GLIBC to link against, but still. Having to build on an old machine is in my mind about as elegant as having to reboot to fix a small problem. You may have to do it from time to time to get work done, but it's not very elegant.


* Assuming a CUPS build with static libraries available.

This part also worries me. Why is CUPS a dependency? It's not listed in the software prerequisites, so maybe it needs to be listed too? Ideally, you would not need CUPS to build the client software, since CUPS is a printer _server_ system.

Nevermind my ranting, thank you very much for the info.


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Message 6909 - Posted: 18 Dec 2007 | 16:01:10 UTC - in response to Message 6908.
Last modified: 18 Dec 2007 | 16:02:17 UTC


Arrrg! and this is the bit I object to. I know Einstein@Home built this way, and using an old version of Linux seems to the the recommended method, but I really find this distasteful. It should be possible to build backward-compatible apps on a newer release of Linux. You may have to get an older version of GLIBC to link against, but still. Having to build on an old machine is in my mind about as elegant as having to reboot to fix a small problem. You may have to do it from time to time to get work done, but it's not very elegant.

I tried badly to go around this, but even library versioning wouldn't work. And building an older version of GLIBC would not work for dynamic linking, unless it's shipped with the client or linked statically, when the whole thing gets enormous.

This part also worries me. Why is CUPS a dependency? It's not listed in the software prerequisites, so maybe it needs to be listed too? Ideally, you would not need CUPS to build the client software, since CUPS is a printer _server_ system.

Beats me too, but I suspect that it's an indirect dependency.

HTH

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