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Profile Wormholio
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Message 2944 - Posted: 24 Feb 2006 | 12:43:36 UTC
Last modified: 24 Feb 2006 | 12:46:21 UTC

Okay, my next interest is in getting images out of signatures. There are a couple of reasons for this.


    * Some of them are rather long and take up a lot of space
    * They load from various sites across the internet, which slows down loading the page.
    * I want to add "attachments" to posts, for graphs and figures, and the thumbnails for those will compete with the sig images.



I've made a small change such that if you edit your sig (or add one if you don't already have one) then images will be stripped out. Existing images are fine for now, though I'm thinking I might at some point have them all moved to the profiles.

Those are the arguments for removing images, but there are arguments for keeping them too. They serve a purpose. They add more info about a person, such as team affiliation, participation in other projects, and some more "personality" that is otherwise hard to convey through typed text. So I'm trying to think of ways to make up for that loss.

One idea is to put team affiliation and country in the block at the left, under the name and avatar, to convey more info about the person.

Are there any other ideas? Will this put a damper on participation, or will it lead to a renaissance of ASCII art?

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Message 2945 - Posted: 24 Feb 2006 | 14:27:37 UTC

Since the software already allows for "Show images as links", isn't it easier to add a "Show images as links in signature" only? Not that I see any graphics, got it standard at Show images as links.

On some forums where there are smileys, that defies the purpose though. I wouldn't mind having the option to only kill images in signatures.

Yes, I know, the other option is to kill all signatures, but that defies the purpose as well. Especially for those of us who have only text in there or are pointing to the wiki.
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Message 2946 - Posted: 24 Feb 2006 | 14:40:15 UTC - in response to Message 2944.

Are there any other ideas? Will this put a damper on participation, or will it lead to a renaissance of ASCII art?


It may not effect participation but it will increase the complaining, especially if the participants are used to having images in their signatures. In some projects I've seen people complaining that the character count allowed in the signature field should be increased so I can only imagine what complaints canning images in signatures would bring. Personally, it doesn't matter one way or the other to me.

Your going to make me dig into my archives for my ASCII art cheat sheet disks and reconnect the old 5-1/4" floppy drive now aren't ya? LOL
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Message 2947 - Posted: 24 Feb 2006 | 14:55:14 UTC

Imagine this in your signature. ;)

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$,,,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$"OOO"$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!OOO!$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$,"OOO",$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$,"OOOOOOO",$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$!"OOOOOOOOOOO"!$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$,"OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO",$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$,1OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO7,$$$$$$$
$$$$$$,!OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"$$$$$$$
$$$$$$!OOOOOOOOO/""""'\OOOOOOOO1$$$$$$
$$$$$$"OOOOOOOOOO"$$$$!OOOOOOOO"$$$$$$
$$$$$$"OOOOOOOOOOO!$$$",OOOOOOO!$$$$$$
$$$$$$$",OOOOOOOOOO",$$$"""""""$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$"!OOOOOOOOOOO",$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$",OOOOOOOOOOO",$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$"OOOOOOOOOOOO",$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$"!OOOOOOOOOOOO"+$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$"==OOOOOOOOOOO,$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$,,,,,,$$$$",OOOOOOOOOO",$$$$$$
$$$$$$,"OOOOOO',$$$$",OOOOOOOOO!$$$$$$
$$$$$$1OOOOOOOO."~~~"OOOOOOOOOO!$$$$$$
$$$$$$!OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO1$$$$$$$
$$$$$$",OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO,"$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$",OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$1OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO,1$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$"~~,OOOOOOOOOO,"$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$"""1OOO1"'$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!OOO!$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$,OOO,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$"""$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Message 2948 - Posted: 24 Feb 2006 | 15:41:01 UTC

Another place I visit has a limit of number of lines in a signature block, rather than (or maybe in addition to?) number of characters. That would eliminate lovely sigs like Jord showed. 8-)

MJ
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Message 2949 - Posted: 24 Feb 2006 | 16:03:40 UTC - in response to Message 2946.

Are there any other ideas? Will this put a damper on participation, or will it lead to a renaissance of ASCII art?


It may not effect participation but it will increase the complaining, especially if the participants are used to having images in their signatures.


For this I'm not thinking about BOINC projects, where there is a long and find tradition of scoreboard images in signatures. I'm thinking of my other project where the discussion forums will be more like a logbook of student activities, or a place for discussions between teachers, or for scientists to interact with students and teachers. New site, new rules.


Your going to make me dig into my archives for my ASCII art cheat sheet disks and reconnect the old 5-1/4" floppy drive now aren't ya? LOL


I won't stop you.

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Message 2950 - Posted: 24 Feb 2006 | 22:35:22 UTC

An Avatar of 100x100 is not too bad, especially if you keep on your server. My bottom signature bar, The Pirate, is only 19x350 which is also small. You could restrict the size, allow only one and let your users upload it to your server as well.
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Message 2951 - Posted: 24 Feb 2006 | 22:36:52 UTC

Renaissance of ASCII art?
Arrr! I'll byte.
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Message 2952 - Posted: 24 Feb 2006 | 22:39:18 UTC - in response to Message 2949.


Your going to make me dig into my archives for my ASCII art cheat sheet disks and reconnect the old 5-1/4" floppy drive now aren't ya? LOL


Why stop at 5-1/4" floppy. Go for the 8" ones.
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Message 2953 - Posted: 25 Feb 2006 | 2:48:48 UTC

NeoAmsterdam has some rather large ASCII art posted way back on SETI. ;)
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Message 2957 - Posted: 25 Feb 2006 | 12:58:34 UTC

OK, so what's the difference between this

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Message 2958 - Posted: 25 Feb 2006 | 12:59:26 UTC - in response to Message 2957.

OK, so what's the difference between this



And this?
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Message 2960 - Posted: 25 Feb 2006 | 13:02:22 UTC - in response to Message 2958.
Last modified: 25 Feb 2006 | 13:04:32 UTC

OK, so what's the difference between this



And this?


If you ban images in sigs, then those that are determined to show them will just include them in the body of the text.

And I'm purposely quoting the body plus sigs just to show how annoying this could get.


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Message 2962 - Posted: 25 Feb 2006 | 14:08:10 UTC - in response to Message 2950.

An Avatar of 100x100 is not too bad, especially if you keep on your server. My bottom signature bar, The Pirate, is only 19x350 which is also small. You could restrict the size, allow only one and let your users upload it to your server as well.


I like this. It addresses all of my complaints about signature images.

By restricting the height to be small (19, heck we could give you 20 :-) the image acts more like a divider between messages. It still adds to the "personality" of the post and of the author, which is one thing we want to encourage.

Since they would be short and wide, across the bottom, they would not conflict with the thumbnails for attachments for graphs and figures, which I imagine will end up along the right side anyway. So no problems on that count.


By uploading the image to our server we could adjust the size to fit the limits, as is now done with avatar and profile images. Since they are served from our site they would load faster. (I don't know how the stats blocks work, but my guess is that some of them are generated on the fly, which slows them down further -- or are they cached?)

Since the images would only be loaded once they would not contain current stats, but they could still contain reference to projects. Though I expect students would put in references to sports teams or bands or other things they were interested in. (Keep in mind I'm not proposing this change for BOINC projects.)

I suspect that with students involved we would need a way to report offensive sigs and block them. I suppose the current mechanism for reporting offensive posts would work -- just point out that it is the signature, not the content that is offensive. A teacher or admin would need a way to quickly block the sig if it is indeed offensive. That functionality will probably be needed even
for pure text signatures.

If the images have to be short then there could even be more than one of them, if they fit side by side, though perhaps we start with just allowing one, with a limit on the height.

It will take a while to implement something to test this, but I think it might be worth the effort.

Comments or further suggestions?

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Message 2963 - Posted: 25 Feb 2006 | 14:12:56 UTC - in response to Message 2960.

[quote]OK, so what's the difference between this

[xxxx]

And this?


If you ban images in sigs, then those that are determined to show them will just include them in the body of the text.

And I'm purposely quoting the body plus sigs just to show how annoying this could get.


I agree that it would still be possible to insert the image in the body. There are two small differences, and indeed they are only small.

1. When the image is in the sig block it's added automatically. When images in sigs are removed (or resized) then the poster has to do a bit more work to insert the image, and one hopes they won't abuse it.

2. The social conventions of the site will (one hopes) keep the abuses down. If teh software doesn't allow automatic insertions, and it's not generally done, ,then it may happen every once in a while but not as a regular part of operation. If it's abused, the [x] at the bottom of the post can be used to report the post as "offensive".

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Message 2964 - Posted: 26 Feb 2006 | 1:56:55 UTC
Last modified: 26 Feb 2006 | 2:04:19 UTC

19 pix high? That doesn't sound like much of a sig. People may stick with text. In which case you could get a max number of characters in size 29. If the avatars are allowed 100 pix in height so should the sig. As far as the width is concerned whether its 100 or 400 you still have blank unused space to the right of it; so as long as width of a sig doesn't stretch out the thread almost any width should be OK. What's the smallest resolution you think would be used? 640x480? Take the width of the screen, subtract the width of the userdata column on the left and the rest should be the sig width limit.
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Message 2965 - Posted: 26 Feb 2006 | 13:28:31 UTC - in response to Message 2964.
Last modified: 26 Feb 2006 | 13:30:21 UTC

19 pix high? That doesn't sound like much of a sig. ... If the avatars are allowed 100 pix in height so should the sig.


I was thinking 50px high if avatars are 100px, but maybe this is something to test to see what looks right.

As far as the width is concerned whether its 100 or 400 you still have blank unused space to the right of it; so as long as width of a sig doesn't stretch out the thread almost any width should be OK. What's the smallest resolution you think would be used? 640x480? Take the width of the screen, subtract the width of the userdata column on the left and the rest should be the sig width limit.


That's what I was thinking. If the height is too large, scale it down. If it's too wide, scale it down. Otherwise just leave it alone.

I've got the first (easy) step working. Images are now allowed again in sigs, but there can be only one.

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Message 2969 - Posted: 27 Feb 2006 | 1:44:23 UTC - in response to Message 2965.

That would still eliminate the most widely used sigs. Single project mundayweb sigs are 81 pix high, single project synergy sigs are 92 pix high. Combined sigs, including boincstats, are larger than those.
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Message 3128 - Posted: 10 Mar 2006 | 12:15:33 UTC

There has to be a way to force an image resize in the text body and or signature. I know on the regular phpBB board I maintain, I have a mod to do that (where you can click on the resized image to load a full size image in a second instance of the browser) as well as a mod to keep people from accidently or deliberately stretching the thread with text to the point of being a chore to read it.

I'm beginning to hate visiting various forums where I constantly have to scroll left and right to read the posts and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Problems I've noticed that cause this are long URL's, Long lines with *-_ and other characters, wide images and people putting sig tags side by side instead on one on top of the other (would love to strange those peeps. LOL).



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Message 3135 - Posted: 11 Mar 2006 | 11:00:06 UTC
Last modified: 11 Mar 2006 | 11:17:38 UTC

The thing is, as people sign up for new projects (and this is likely to happen), these images will tend to grow, as more project names get listed (once one starts accumulating credit for a new project). What's more, and moving forward, one can almost expect this to happen. Some of the reasons:

- New projects are starting up on BOINC as the days/months go by
- People will likely find a few projects comming out to be of interest, so sign up for more
- Faster processors (and now with AMD having gone multi-core with the X2 proc, and Conroe which is Intel's next generation x86-64 proc, to suceed the Pentium 4, will also be multi-proc), will allow people to crunch more
- Eventually dual proc CPU cores will be standard in all new AMD and Intel cores, leaving all new comp buyers with one of these
- Given all the above, people will be willing to sign up for more projects then in past, as it becomes more and more feasible and desireable (too many projects one might find interesting)

A decision here, could end up becomming an issue of whether people get to show their credit scores or not, which in part does add to the competitive nature in BOINC; as peeps try to show off their contributions. Else, stat images would need to be made the exception...

Unlike other images, they aren't static images either (as a picture would be); as the XML data that gets exported by the projects, results in updates to the credit information displayed... As to resizing, to a point it could work, though if things get shrunk too far (keeping in mind it's actually text these images are showing, such as credit scores, rather then graphics); if the font size gets too small, it could become unreadable without a magnifying glass...
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Message 3136 - Posted: 11 Mar 2006 | 13:42:48 UTC - in response to Message 3135.

As to resizing, to a point it could work, though if things get shrunk too far (keeping in mind it's actually text these images are showing, such as credit scores, rather then graphics); if the font size gets too small, it could become unreadable without a magnifying glass...

Oh, I don't know. A standard option in the forums to click on a postage stamp sized signature picture to have it enlarged to its regular size in a popup/tab/separate window wouldn't go amiss.
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Message 3137 - Posted: 11 Mar 2006 | 14:43:14 UTC - in response to Message 3135.

A decision here, could end up becomming an issue of whether people get to show their credit scores or not, which in part does add to the competitive nature in BOINC; as peeps try to show off their contributions.


Do keep in mind that what we will be trying here is only for a different project unrelated to BOINC. I am not proposing to limit sig images for BOINC projects.

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Message 3138 - Posted: 11 Mar 2006 | 20:41:15 UTC
Last modified: 11 Mar 2006 | 20:49:09 UTC

Ah, if it isn't BOINC related, then nah, wouldn't make a difference either way...

Only reason this makes a dif on BOINC, (or on a distributed computing project), is that the credit is a part of it. It's also what entices some to setup computing farms, so they get the "bragging rights" for having done so much...

Actually come to think of it, if it's a single project (yeah, I've seen some peole get competitive on folding@home, when they're on a website's team, and show it off in the forums), then something much like our credit counter in our user profile off to the left would serve this same purpose, which would make the "score card" totally redundent for them, hence un-needed. I'm assuming we're talking a DC project here, of course...
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Message 3249 - Posted: 3 May 2006 | 17:42:44 UTC
Last modified: 3 May 2006 | 17:47:35 UTC

I would like to use a longer signature, like this one I use at SIMAP
http://boinc.bio.wzw.tum.de/boincsimap/forum/viewtopic.php?t=211

*The administrator there, had to enlarge the limit to about 300 chars,
so the signature u see clicking on above link fits

*And how about being able to use emoticons (easily) If I really want I can use

*and not having to type
[url] http://something [/url]
at each link we want to post ?

*Upgrading to phpbb2 allmost all of this, will be in
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Message 3250 - Posted: 4 May 2006 | 14:26:55 UTC - in response to Message 3249.

I would like to use a longer signature, like this one I use at SIMAP
http://boinc.bio.wzw.tum.de/boincsimap/forum/viewtopic.php?t=211


Well, it looks like that sig is actually two images next to each other. Here we are testing a limit of only one image per sig, perhaps with height restrictions, but no restriction (for now) on width across the page.

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Message 3251 - Posted: 5 May 2006 | 5:46:59 UTC - in response to Message 3250.
Last modified: 5 May 2006 | 6:20:31 UTC

Yeah, I think that a heigth restriction is need -:!

Some signatures, above certain height do distract/confuse the readers attention

However the width,
does not cause that effect, even when composed by two images on same line.

example of a signature with two images, that does not disturb attention


This is other signature that does not disturb attention -
However I dont like of it too much cause another team logo on the left


example of a signature with only 1 image that disturbs attention (at least for me)


However above signature, can be placed this way, to avoid disturbing attention


So,
I whish a heigh restriction, and a drop of restricion on qty of images per sig

About witdh restriction , I believe that this is need too, sometimes
someone, instead of writing on multiple lines ... writes all the text
of a loong message into *one* line -:(

May be an automatic "word wrap" can be implemented -:)

What u think about what I said above :?:


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Message 3252 - Posted: 5 May 2006 | 14:17:09 UTC - in response to Message 3251.

So,
I whish a heigh restriction, and a drop of restricion on qty of images per sig

About witdh restriction , I believe that this is need too, sometimes
someone, instead of writing on multiple lines ... writes all the text
of a loong message into *one* line -:(


Well, I'm moving slowly on this, as all can tell, but I think we might limit it to one image, which is uploaded, with height and width restrictions. So it would be similar to avatars now, but with different size limits.

The reason for uploading is that then pages would not load as slowly as the various images are assembled from all corners of the Internet. And we would have a little more control over the content (ie could turn it off) in case there is a problem (remember this is for secondary students).

And we would not have your type of paranoia generating signature :-)

The sigs would not necessarily be BOINC stats, though perhaps the sig sites will already consider making them wider and shorter, more as a separator than as a big splat at the bottom of every single post.
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Message 3253 - Posted: 6 May 2006 | 20:25:21 UTC
Last modified: 6 May 2006 | 20:44:41 UTC

The reason for uploading is that then pages would not load as slowly as the various images are assembled from all corners of the Internet.


You are wrong.

I have two Internet Links --> One 10Mbps and the other 14400 bps !-(:)

I try(ed) on both, loading forum(s) with lots of images/signatures -:;:

Results:

a) Your site is really somewhat slower !

b) From equal speed sites , fora loads at *same* speed,
despite qty of images/signatures on a thread !

What happens on slow links is that after fora is totally loaded,

sometimes, some signatures/images, delays some more time to load -or- ,
does not shown up at all

*Then, IE 6 shows a picture placeholder with a x
inplace of that picture.

However pictures does not affect speed of fora loading ...
*Unless that pictures are loaded from the *same* site as the fora

*Fora text can be read, even before pictures/signatures load -:)

Thus,
*is better, (for fora speed), loading images from all Internet corners,
than supplying pre-loaded images from the fora site -:)

Cheers,


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Message 3254 - Posted: 7 May 2006 | 0:22:19 UTC

What was bad was when the one image enforcement went into effect. If you had more than one at the time it was ok, but if you changed your sig it wasnt. The problem was if you changed anything in your forum prefs it kicked out the extra images.
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Message 3257 - Posted: 14 May 2006 | 3:25:37 UTC - in response to Message 3254.
Last modified: 14 May 2006 | 3:33:41 UTC

An example of a "wide mode" mundayweb sig ...



... and another "two image" sig ... neither would be particularly distracting to me, after seeing so many different versions for so long ... I wonder if anyone actually looks at any of them much any more? However, I do very much agree that a height and width limit would be appropriate (or conversely, a "thread unstretch" option that works similar to the "remove whitespace" in some editors. Sniff the user's current browser width, and wrap at it - if it breaks a long text string, so be it (unless it's in a "code" block). If an image is too wide, display it as a link instead of the image itself.
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Message 4301 - Posted: 18 Dec 2006 | 13:26:25 UTC
Last modified: 18 Dec 2006 | 13:27:52 UTC

This feature has been restored. The signature block now has it's own CSS class (as it did before). And as before, have used this to set a maximum height for signatures. Anything larger (such as a large image, such as a large stat block) is truncated.

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Message 4305 - Posted: 19 Dec 2006 | 4:10:28 UTC - in response to Message 4301.

This feature has been restored. The signature block now has it's own CSS class (as it did before). And as before, have used this to set a maximum height for signatures. Anything larger (such as a large image, such as a large stat block) is truncated.

Thank you. Any possiblity of allowing the most recent post first sort order to be selectable?
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Message 4313 - Posted: 19 Dec 2006 | 13:14:13 UTC - in response to Message 4305.
Last modified: 19 Dec 2006 | 13:19:44 UTC

JKeck wrote:
Thank you. Any possiblity of allowing the most recent post first sort order to be selectable?


It is now, isn't it?


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Message 4314 - Posted: 19 Dec 2006 | 13:27:16 UTC - in response to Message 4313.

Rusty wrote:
JKeck wrote:
Thank you. Any possiblity of allowing the most recent post first sort order to be selectable?


It is now, isn't it?



It seems that there may be two bugs here. First, when posting a reply there is a problem with subscriptions (my posting this reply will test this). Second, the sort pulldown has too many choices, and some don't work as they should.

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Message 4315 - Posted: 19 Dec 2006 | 13:39:52 UTC - in response to Message 4314.

Rusty wrote:
First, when posting a reply there is a problem with subscriptions (my posting this reply will test this).

This is a second test, after a little mod to the database.

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Message 4316 - Posted: 20 Dec 2006 | 8:07:22 UTC - in response to Message 4313.

JKeck wrote:
Thank you. Any possiblity of allowing the most recent post first sort order to be selectable?


It is now, isn't it?


It let me select it this time. It was showing before but would not save.
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Message 4317 - Posted: 20 Dec 2006 | 12:29:00 UTC - in response to Message 4316.

JKeck wrote:
It let me select it this time. It was showing before but would not save.

Right, me too. There appear to be too many choices, including "Most recent post first" and "newest first" What's the difference? One works, one doesn't. I'll take a look at it. But I will likely also disable the newest first sort, except for the helpdesk, since I still want to arrange things to behave like a logbook for I2U2.
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