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Message 2884 - Posted: 21 Feb 2006 | 23:39:55 UTC

This thread is for testing ideas to encourage trimming quoted text.
Starting the user with [ TRIM_THIS_quote ] to force them to edit the quote is fairly easy to start with. This is a test.

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Message 2885 - Posted: 21 Feb 2006 | 23:40:39 UTC - in response to Message 2884.
Last modified: 21 Feb 2006 | 23:41:01 UTC

[TRIM_THIS_quote]This thread is for testing ideas to encourage trimming quoted text.
Starting the user with [ TRIM_THIS_quote ] to force them to edit the quote is fairly easy to start with. This is a test.
[/TRIM_THIS_quote]

And this is what it looks like if I don't edit the tags. Looks ugly.

What it really should do is remove the stuff entirely.

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Message 2886 - Posted: 21 Feb 2006 | 23:51:22 UTC - in response to Message 2885.
Last modified: 21 Feb 2006 | 23:52:45 UTC

[TRIM_THIS_quote][TRIM_THIS_quote]This thread is for testing ideas to encourage trimming quoted text.
Starting the user with [ TRIM_THIS_quote ] to force them to edit the quote is fairly easy to start with. This is a test.
[/TRIM_THIS_quote]

And this is what it looks like if I don't edit the tags. Looks ugly.

What it really should do is remove the stuff entirely.
[/TRIM_THIS_quote]

I just left the quotes alone, and they should all dissappear!

[edit]
Nope, didn't work.

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Message 2887 - Posted: 22 Feb 2006 | 0:36:00 UTC

I'm about to test it without the extra tag in the middle. Does it work, or doesn't it?

MJ
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Message 2888 - Posted: 22 Feb 2006 | 0:36:27 UTC - in response to Message 2887.
Last modified: 22 Feb 2006 | 0:36:56 UTC

[TRIM_THIS_quote]I'm about to test it without the extra tag in the middle. Does it work, or doesn't it?

MJ[/TRIM_THIS_quote]
And replying without messing with the added tags give me....

Nothing different. Ah well, 'twas just a thought.

MJ
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Message 2889 - Posted: 22 Feb 2006 | 2:13:55 UTC - in response to Message 2886.
Last modified: 22 Feb 2006 | 2:29:12 UTC



I just left the quotes alone, and they should all dissappear!

[edit]
Nope, didn't work.


Another test.......
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Message 2892 - Posted: 22 Feb 2006 | 2:45:37 UTC - in response to Message 2888.


And replying without messing with the added tags give me....

Nothing different. Ah well, 'twas just a thought.

MJ


Eventually it will, but not tonight.

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Message 2894 - Posted: 22 Feb 2006 | 12:31:50 UTC - in response to Message 2892.

[TRIM_THIS_quote]


And replying without messing with the added tags give me....

Nothing different. Ah well, 'twas just a thought.

MJ


Eventually it will, but not tonight.
[/quote]
So how do you do the quote....changed one trim tag, and left the first one in.
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Message 2895 - Posted: 22 Feb 2006 | 12:34:27 UTC - in response to Message 2894.
Last modified: 22 Feb 2006 | 12:35:15 UTC

[TRIM_THIS_quote][TRIM_THIS_quote]


And replying without messing with the added tags give me....

Nothing different. Ah well, 'twas just a thought.

MJ


Eventually it will, but not tonight.
[/TRIM_THIS_quote]
So how do you do the quote....changed one trim tag, and left the first one in.[/TRIM_THIS_quote]

This may be more annoying than the current quoting system. Oh well we will see.
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Message 2896 - Posted: 22 Feb 2006 | 12:58:02 UTC - in response to Message 2895.
Last modified: 22 Feb 2006 | 12:59:33 UTC


This may be more annoying than the current quoting system. Oh well we will see.


Agreed.

It has to be just annoying enough that people will trim their quotes, but
easy enough for them to do so. Maybe [ DEAD_quote ] is simpler?

I've only got half of it working (the easy part). If you leave the quote untouched then it should be removed when you post. The challenging part is that it has to deal with nested quotes properly. And what exactly is 'properly'?

If it's too annoying we'll drop it.


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Message 2903 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 0:24:08 UTC - in response to Message 2886.
Last modified: 23 Feb 2006 | 0:24:29 UTC


And how about this?

Yup, now it works!

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Message 2904 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 0:28:56 UTC - in response to Message 2886.



Trimming in a different (more general) way.

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Message 2905 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 0:29:44 UTC - in response to Message 2886.
Last modified: 23 Feb 2006 | 0:30:12 UTC



I just left the quotes alone, and they should all dissappear!

[edit]
Nope, didn't work.


Some of the quote gets through...

Good, that worked as it should.
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Message 2906 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 0:32:01 UTC - in response to Message 2886.
Last modified: 23 Feb 2006 | 0:32:20 UTC


Okay, now modify starting tags but not ending. Everything should be removed... Yup, that worked.


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Message 2908 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 1:02:47 UTC - in response to Message 2903.
Last modified: 23 Feb 2006 | 1:11:52 UTC

Yup, now it works!

Not so hard to work with. Looks like a good mod!
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Message 2910 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 2:57:32 UTC

There are also those who just leave their quotes messed up no matter how they display.
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Message 2915 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 10:21:50 UTC - in response to Message 2906.
Last modified: 23 Feb 2006 | 10:23:09 UTC

I like the text on the side. As soon as you introduce this quoting, you'll find people posting "how do I do this?" as they never read the side menu. ;)
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Message 2917 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 12:31:21 UTC - in response to Message 2910.

There are also those who just leave their quotes messed up no matter how they display.


Aye, there always will be. This way though, if they don't do anything at all, which seems to be the usual case, then the quote doesn't show up.

And if they just change the opening tag but not the closing tag, it doesn't show up.

I suppose we could also change any remaining "TRIM_THIS.." strings to something like "I_WAS_TOO_LAZY_AND_INCONSIDERATE_TO_TRIM_THIS...", but I doubt we need that. If we do, it's rather easy to set up. :-)


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Message 2918 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 12:32:45 UTC - in response to Message 2915.

I like the text on the side. As soon as you introduce this quoting, you'll find people posting "how do I do this?" as they never read the side menu. ;)


No doubt. That is why I made it red. After we all get used to it we can change the color to black.


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Message 2919 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 12:39:49 UTC

Okay, we'll try this new quoting out for a bit and see if we need to tweak it.

There is one other thing to consider: nested quoting. We could either

1. Turn all nested [ quote ] tags into [ TRIM_THIS_quote ] tags (and closing)
so that they are removed by default, requiring the poster to restore each
level of quoting or it will be removed, or

2. Just present [ TRIM_THIS_quote ] tags around the quoted material, preserving
any nested quotes (this is how it works now).

Comments?

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Message 2921 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 13:48:03 UTC

Okay, here's another idea for keeping down the number of overly quoted posts. I'm guessing that many people just hit "reply to post" even when they just want to add something to the thread. They don't bother to remove the quoted text and just add their comment. What they really wanted to do was "reply to thread", but that link is all the way at the bottom (or top) of the page.

So I've put a "reply to thread" link right next to the "reply to post" link.

Will this work, or will it just be too confusing to be presented with two options? I guess we'll see.


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Message 2924 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 15:05:41 UTC - in response to Message 2921.

Okay, here's another idea for keeping down the number of overly quoted posts. I'm guessing that many people just hit "reply to post" even when they just want to add something to the thread. They don't bother to remove the quoted text and just add their comment. What they really wanted to do was "reply to thread", but that link is all the way at the bottom (or top) of the page.

So I've put a "reply to thread" link right next to the "reply to post" link.

Will this work, or will it just be too confusing to be presented with two options? I guess we'll see.

It took me exactly ten seconds (or so :) to (as I read here, correctly) deduce the meaning of additional "Reply to thread" link near each post. I'd like to see the font smaller, maybe to match the size of message ID and date and rating, so that I could intuitively click the "default" one - "Reply to this post" link without a need to compate the two texts - my 0.02 cents :-)

Having only the outer [quotes] marked with TRIM_THIS_ is possibly good trade-off between someone editing too much and otherone fully ignoring the quotes.
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Message 2925 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 15:10:04 UTC - in response to Message 2919.

There is one other thing to consider: nested quoting. We could either

1. Turn all nested [ quote ] tags into [ TRIM_THIS_quote ] tags (and closing)
so that they are removed by default, requiring the poster to restore each
level of quoting or it will be removed, or

Seeing they are nested quotes, can't you use [Nested_quote][/Nested_quote] as a whole quote option?

I mean so both [ quote][ /quote] and [nested_quote][/nested_quote] can work? Or would that become too complicated?

Comments?

Other option would be to re-introduce the box quotes. But that needs html, doesn't it?
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Message 2926 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 15:36:05 UTC - in response to Message 2925.


Other option would be to re-introduce the box quotes. But that needs html, doesn't it?


I am afraid I don't know what this means.

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Message 2927 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 15:37:59 UTC

At one point in time when they were still inbetween HTML forums and BBCode, we had some blockquotes, followed by a whole box around the quotes, to the line at the side of the quotes.

With a box you can differentiate between the quotes. But I think it needed HTML options at the time. You ought to be able to ask Rob and Janus about that.
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Message 2928 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 16:36:39 UTC - in response to Message 2927.
Last modified: 23 Feb 2006 | 16:37:13 UTC

At one point in time when they were still inbetween HTML forums and BBCode, we had some blockquotes, followed by a whole box around the quotes, to the line at the side of the quotes.

With a box you can differentiate between the quotes. But I think it needed HTML options at the time. You ought to be able to ask Rob and Janus about that.


And whats to stop what I have just done and remove the trim_this_ bit, weill it show the quote still

well lets see

Edit so We can still all be easy and just removed the bit in the code

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Message 2929 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 16:56:25 UTC - in response to Message 2927.

At one point in time when they were still inbetween HTML forums and BBCode, we had some blockquotes, followed by a whole box around the quotes, to the line at the side of the quotes.

With a box you can differentiate between the quotes. But I think it needed HTML options at the time. You ought to be able to ask Rob and Janus about that.



We sort of have this now with the different colored backgrounds, but the color differences are so subtle that they may not be visible on some graphics cards. This is something that I can tweak in the CSS.

(There is also a problem with how the <blockquote> CSS gets propagated to every <blockquote> on the site, not just in the forums. See, for example, the description of the starsphere on E@H (not here). I know how to fix this, but won't suggest it until we are on the CVS HEAD.)

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Message 2930 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 17:01:58 UTC - in response to Message 2927.

At one point in time when they were still inbetween HTML forums and BBCode, we had some blockquotes, followed by a whole box around the quotes, to the line at the side of the quotes.


How's it look now? Perhaps too separated from the new text?


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Message 2931 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 17:05:52 UTC - in response to Message 2928.

Edit: so We can still all be easy and just removed the bit in the code


Exactly. It's very easy to edit the tags to enable the quote, and hopefully
trim the quoted text as well. But if you are lazy and do not trim the TRIM_THIS_ bit out then nothing gets quoted.

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Message 2932 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 17:07:38 UTC

Now, that looks better. Thinking out of the box then, different background colours for the different nested quotes?
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Message 2934 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 19:23:38 UTC

I can almost guarantee that the "Reply to thread" and "Reply to this post" links will be confusing to some people. I run a board and half of them still can't understand the differences between a thread, a post and a topic after a year plus of posting.

Maybe "Post Reply" and "Quote" for the links within the individual posts in the thread? That somewhat better tells the computer illiterate that they will be replying with or without quoting. It may help reduce the number of people that just click on the "reply to this post" to respond to a thread.
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Message 2936 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 21:11:04 UTC - in response to Message 2934.

I can almost guarantee that the "Reply to thread" and "Reply to this post" links will be confusing to some people.


I suspect so as well. How about "Post to thread" (without the word reply) and "reply to THIS post" (to emphasize the difference).

As it is, if someone uses either and just starts typing, they add to the thread but don't add overly quoted stuff. Some small progress.

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Message 2937 - Posted: 23 Feb 2006 | 22:05:15 UTC - in response to Message 2936.

Some small progress.


True. Now if someone could only figure out how to get the person's computer to do something like this to them when they overquote, we'd be set.

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Message 2938 - Posted: 24 Feb 2006 | 0:46:50 UTC - in response to Message 2937.

Some small progress.


True. Now if someone could only figure out how to get the person's computer to do something like this to them when they overquote, we'd be set.


:-)

Actually, I think we could do that. If the quoted text is longer than a certain amount then substitute the [ img] link instead.

But now I'm more interested in trimming long signature images. ;-)

In fact, it should now be the case that one cannot put an image tag in a signature.

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Message 2939 - Posted: 24 Feb 2006 | 2:21:01 UTC
Last modified: 24 Feb 2006 | 2:45:26 UTC

So here's an odd one for you.

When I open a thread now in Firefox, some of the [post to thread][reply to THIS post] links are butted right up against the red x for reporting a post, and others are to the far right where they usually are. If I refresh the page, they randomly change and some of the others will be by the x and the rest back out to the right.

Things that make you go hmmm!


EDIT - you can see a screenshot here of what I'm seeing.

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Message 2943 - Posted: 24 Feb 2006 | 5:40:53 UTC - in response to Message 2938.
Last modified: 24 Feb 2006 | 5:41:37 UTC

But now I'm more interested in trimming long signature images. ;-)

In fact, it should now be the case that one cannot put an image tag in a signature.

Image still there.
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Message 2955 - Posted: 25 Feb 2006 | 9:23:03 UTC
Last modified: 25 Feb 2006 | 9:35:58 UTC

How about changing 'Post to thread' to 'Broadside' and 'Reply to THIS post' to 'Single shot'

Ha har - that'll fettle em.

an 'cobblestones' to 'Pieces of Eight' an'awl.

http://blindkat.hegewisch.net/pirates/money.html

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Message 2956 - Posted: 25 Feb 2006 | 12:51:55 UTC

IMHO, most newbs would miss the message about trimming quoted material, or not understand it.

It would only be once users became comfortable with the forums, and typing in BBCode tags that this would become useful.

The default behaviour amongst a bunch of newbs would lead to no quotes in posts.
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Message 2959 - Posted: 25 Feb 2006 | 13:00:29 UTC - in response to Message 2956.

The default behaviour amongst a bunch of newbs would lead to no quotes in posts.


Instead of the entire previous messasge being reposted. Mission accomplished.

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Message 2961 - Posted: 25 Feb 2006 | 13:09:25 UTC - in response to Message 2959.


kewl!
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Message 3049 - Posted: 28 Feb 2006 | 21:17:20 UTC - in response to Message 2959.
Last modified: 28 Feb 2006 | 21:23:21 UTC

[EDIT: Forget it - the double quoting had me all confused... Nice feature, though!]
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Message 3083 - Posted: 2 Mar 2006 | 3:53:48 UTC - in response to Message 2938.
Last modified: 2 Mar 2006 | 3:55:52 UTC


Actually, I think we could do that. If the quoted text is longer than a certain amount then substitute the [ img] link instead.

But now I'm more interested in trimming long signature images. ;-)

In fact, it should now be the case that one cannot put an image tag in a signature.


No computer pirate in my sig anymore? :-(


EDIT: Phew, it's still there. :-)


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Message 3085 - Posted: 2 Mar 2006 | 12:17:48 UTC - in response to Message 3083.


No computer pirate in my sig anymore? :-(


EDIT: Phew, it's still there. :-)


Yes, but if you edit your sig now you will have to choose between the two. The current policy is that only one image is allowed per signature.

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Message 3099 - Posted: 3 Mar 2006 | 17:34:25 UTC - in response to Message 3085.
Last modified: 3 Mar 2006 | 17:35:31 UTC


No computer pirate in my sig anymore? :-(

EDIT: Phew, it's still there. :-)

Yes, but if you edit your sig now you will have to choose between the two. The current policy is that only one image is allowed per signature.

The Germans would say: Qual der Wahl, or, THIS one or THAT one? I'd choose the parrot ;-)
(Or even better some shiny jewel case? Pssssssst!)
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Message 3109 - Posted: 4 Mar 2006 | 3:04:29 UTC - in response to Message 3085.

Yes, but if you edit your sig now you will have to choose between the two. The current policy is that only one image is allowed per signature.

That's only half right. If you change ANYTHING in your forum prefs your sig get's hit. I changed one little checkbox and I lost a pic.
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