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Profile Cori
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Message 2319 - Posted: 17 Jan 2006 | 19:48:54 UTC

Hi, the title says it all: I came home and found about 25 new hosts under the same name... after each contact to the scheduler it created one more ;) Now the problem for me is not too big, because merging worked fine, but it's a bit annoying...
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Message 2320 - Posted: 17 Jan 2006 | 20:16:37 UTC - in response to Message 2319.
Last modified: 17 Jan 2006 | 20:24:16 UTC

Hi, the title says it all: I came home and found about 25 new hosts under the same name... after each contact to the scheduler it created one more ;) Now the problem for me is not too big, because merging worked fine, but it's a bit annoying...


Hmmm, I saw something like this when the directory in which BOINC lives/runs was no longer writeable by BOINC. That machine created thousands of new entries on Einstein@Home before we tracked that one down.

Check the permissions on C:\\Program Files\\BOINC or wherever you installed it.
(If you have XP you can still do this, but it's not accessible by default. See here.)

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Message 2321 - Posted: 17 Jan 2006 | 20:35:58 UTC - in response to Message 2320.
Last modified: 17 Jan 2006 | 21:05:09 UTC

Check the permissions on C:Program FilesBOINC or wherever you installed it.
(If you have XP you can still do this, but it's not accessible by default. See here.)


Thanks, will try this! ;) Funny, that it only happens with Pirates, because PG and SIMAP are doing well... perhaps my laptop wants to enter the ship, hehe!

Edit#1: didn't help with the file permission... just "created" a new host again :(

Edit#2: message from BOINC is:
17.01.2006 22:03:14|Pirates@Home|[b]Computer ID: not assigned yet;[/b] location: home; project prefs: default


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Message 2364 - Posted: 18 Jan 2006 | 16:43:13 UTC - in response to Message 2321.


I just checked my hosts, and I too had several dozens of them.
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Message 2417 - Posted: 20 Jan 2006 | 3:05:22 UTC
Last modified: 20 Jan 2006 | 3:09:54 UTC

I had that problem too, in my case the reason was that I had used the old account file with just the new URL inserted.

Account filename and entry have to match it seems.

It created a second account file on each contact but it didn't trash or rename the file with the wrong name, so I ended up with 2 Pirates projects in client_state.xml of which one never had a chance to receive a new HostID.

As both projects had the same name, it always asked for a new ID here but it wouldhave needed one for the old server to be satisfied.


BOINC should catch that but otoh. they sure will say "leave those XMLs alone and use the menu"


p.s.: probably not the same reason this time, it behaves different, no second Pirates entry and no URL / filename mismatch

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Message 2441 - Posted: 20 Jan 2006 | 22:09:54 UTC - in response to Message 2417.
Last modified: 20 Jan 2006 | 22:10:28 UTC

I had that problem too, in my case the reason was that I had used the old account file with just the new URL inserted.
Account filename and entry have to match it seems.


I used my old account, too, but when I (re-) attached, BOINC used the new url and also created a new account.xml with the matching name. So this shouldn't be the reason, mhh... nevertheless I merged over 50 hosts again. :P
I wonder why there's a message like "Computer ID: not assigned yet..." or how this can be solved.

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Message 2443 - Posted: 20 Jan 2006 | 23:26:07 UTC
Last modified: 20 Jan 2006 | 23:28:09 UTC

Sorry for posting again, but the time for edit was over... :P Just wanted to add that I'm using a development client version (CPDNBBC 5.3.9) and (re-) attached to Pirates via an Account Management System which is currently beta tested. I don't have multiple host entries with 'normal' attaching via BOINC manager (just checked this out...) but as other people had the same problem I'm not sure where the bug is... ;)
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Message 2465 - Posted: 21 Jan 2006 | 9:37:26 UTC - in response to Message 2443.

I'm using same AMS system as Cori does. I did not play with any xml files. And I'm using GridRepublic client.
Anyway, since the last time I merged hosts (some 48hours ago) no new entries have appeared. Got some WUs instead ;)
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Message 2468 - Posted: 21 Jan 2006 | 10:09:58 UTC

Heck, I had three host entries again to merge... :P
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Message 2484 - Posted: 21 Jan 2006 | 16:37:50 UTC - in response to Message 2443.

Just wanted to add that I'm using a development client version (CPDNBBC 5.3.9) and (re-) attached to Pirates via an Account Management System which is currently beta tested. I don't have multiple host entries with 'normal' attaching via BOINC manager (just checked this out...) but as other people had the same problem I'm not sure where the bug is... ;)


Could it be that the AMS is fighting with the BOINC manager or client about the URL?

At some point I may switch the Vassar link back to the archive for mission 1 (as it should be) and we'll see what that does for this. And how many new problems it creates. :-)

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Message 2486 - Posted: 21 Jan 2006 | 16:55:02 UTC - in response to Message 2484.

Just wanted to add that I'm using a development client version (CPDNBBC 5.3.9) and (re-) attached to Pirates via an Account Management System which is currently beta tested. I don't have multiple host entries with 'normal' attaching via BOINC manager (just checked this out...) but as other people had the same problem I'm not sure where the bug is... ;)


Could it be that the AMS is fighting with the BOINC manager or client about the URL?

At some point I may switch the Vassar link back to the archive for mission 1 (as it should be) and we'll see what that does for this. And how many new problems it creates. :-)


I'm the developer of the above mentioned AMS, and I have looked into this problem from the AMS side.

There is no fighting going on. The AMS lets the host connect and disconnect without a problem. It also 'sees' that a client is connected and doesn't send a new attach command. Even if it would send a new attach command, the host would reject it (and put a message in the message tab 'Already attached')(there is a catch, but it doesn't apply in this case).

I also saw the creation of multiple host entries in my account. Whenever the host connected to the Pirates scheduler (manual or automated) it created a new host entry.

A host that is connected to an AMS doesn't send (as far as I now, but David or Rom will know) different requests to projects than a host that isn't connected to an AMS.
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Message 2495 - Posted: 21 Jan 2006 | 21:07:18 UTC - in response to Message 2486.

I'm the developer of the above mentioned AMS, and I have looked into this problem from the AMS side.


Willy - thanks for all the information. I certainly meant no disrespect to your code when suggesting something to check for.

Right now the Pirates server is using BOINC 5.2.15, which is supposed to be the 'stable' branch. Perhaps there is a problem with my server configuration. Earlier there were problems with the permissions in the upload directory, which caused problems for the file deleter, but I don't think would cause this behavior.

We'll stay at 5.2.15 for a week or so, then upgrade to 5.3 and live life on the cutting edge for a bit. It will be interesting to see if this is fixed in 5.3 or continues. Thanks for your help.


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Message 2497 - Posted: 21 Jan 2006 | 22:15:04 UTC - in response to Message 2495.

Willy - thanks for all the information. I certainly meant no disrespect to your code when suggesting something to check for.


NP. There could easily be a bug in my code. My AMS is in BETA, you're running a stable version of the server code, so I'm betting on the AMS when there is a problem.

But in this case Pirates is the only project (so far) with this particular fluke.
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Message 2498 - Posted: 21 Jan 2006 | 22:21:41 UTC - in response to Message 2484.

At some point I may switch the Vassar link back to the archive for mission 1 (as it should be) and we'll see what that does for this. And how many new problems it creates. :-)

When you switch, consider this url.
Since i've learned to work with php, it may be more accurate.

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Message 2558 - Posted: 23 Jan 2006 | 22:54:18 UTC

This cloning of hosts isn't a Pirates problem alone, a team mate who crunches Rosetta just told me, that he has the same problem. It must be the new server side software version.

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Message 2568 - Posted: 24 Jan 2006 | 12:47:09 UTC
Last modified: 24 Jan 2006 | 12:47:41 UTC

5.2.15 failed in alpha testing. Don't really know the reason, AFAIK 5.2.13 is the "recommended" release:

Email from David A follows:

David Anderson to boinc_alpha
More options Jan 17 (7 days ago)

Testing of 5.2.15 is complete (I think - is it, Rom?)
It didn't pass.

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Message 2579 - Posted: 24 Jan 2006 | 21:33:10 UTC

No problems here!!
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Message 2581 - Posted: 24 Jan 2006 | 22:14:38 UTC

To me it happened with 4.19

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Message 2599 - Posted: 25 Jan 2006 | 15:41:37 UTC - in response to Message 2497.

NP. There could easily be a bug in my code. My AMS is in BETA, you're running a stable version of the server code, so I'm betting on the AMS when there is a problem.

But in this case Pirates is the only project (so far) with this particular fluke.


It could also be a strange interaction between the project server and the account manager, right?

Quite by accident I found what looks like an SQL problem in am_set_info.php.
Would this kind of error show up if that script, called during a dialogue with the AM, caused an error in setting the host ID?

I've made a small change which corrects the error, and when there is work again we can see if this clears up the problem.



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Message 2603 - Posted: 25 Jan 2006 | 20:10:13 UTC - in response to Message 2599.


It could also be a strange interaction between the project server and the account manager, right?


Could be, but I don't think so. The duplicates are created during contact between the client and the project. The AMS does not participate in that communication.

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Message 2606 - Posted: 25 Jan 2006 | 23:21:22 UTC
Last modified: 25 Jan 2006 | 23:54:54 UTC

I can imagine where it comes from :

The first scheduler (pirates.spy-hill.net/cgi-bin/scheduler) contact nearly always fails although there seems to be a scheduler listening.

It goes to the second scheduler (pirates.spy-hill.net/cgi-bin/cgi) immediately and receives a new ID, not knowing that the first scheduler created a new ID for the same machine too.

Sometimes both scheduler contacts fail, both create an ID but the reply never arrives and the BOINC client will continue asking for an ID.

I get failed scheduler contacts very often here, some assigning work that never arrives, some for receiving an ID that never arrives.

Is there a way to increase the debug output of CC 4.19 so I can check what happens? No paket monitor available so that is not an option ;-)


edit : could it be a DSL problem with the Max. MTU size ?

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Message 2607 - Posted: 26 Jan 2006 | 0:21:43 UTC - in response to Message 2606.

I can imagine where it comes from :

The first scheduler (pirates.spy-hill.net/cgi-bin/scheduler) contact nearly always fails although there seems to be a scheduler listening.

It goes to the second scheduler (pirates.spy-hill.net/cgi-bin/cgi) immediately and receives a new ID, not knowing that the first scheduler created a new ID for the same machine too.


Interesting theory, I like it for several reasons, one being that it's easily checked. The two schedulers are in fact the same code. I just don't like calling the thing 'cgi'. So I'll cut down to only one, and we will see what that does.



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Message 2612 - Posted: 26 Jan 2006 | 7:34:35 UTC
Last modified: 26 Jan 2006 | 7:49:24 UTC

Pirates@Home - 2006-01-26 08:25:34 - Host ID not assigned yet
...
--- - 2006-01-26 08:25:38 - Insufficient work; requesting more
Pirates@Home - 2006-01-26 08:25:38 - Requesting 146479 seconds of work
Pirates@Home - 2006-01-26 08:25:38 - Sending request to scheduler: http://pirates.spy-hill.net/cgi-bin/scheduler
Pirates@Home - 2006-01-26 08:25:41 - Scheduler RPC to http://pirates.spy-hill.net/cgi-bin/scheduler failed
Pirates@Home - 2006-01-26 08:25:41 - No schedulers responded
Pirates@Home - 2006-01-26 08:25:41 - Deferring communication with project for 1 minutes and 0 seconds


It still added one ID on this attempt, but only one, before, it has been 2 quite often.

So it's basically the same missing handshake ACK that creates those phantom WUs, that get assigned but never arrived.

The time values are CET, the host that has been created on this first attempt is 18668.

It did create a new sched_reply.xml file btw., it looks OK too,I hve no idea why the BOINC client doesn't use it.

Unfortunately it didn't fix the problem, just the "new hosts creation rate" dropped. I wonder why the communication fails so often, even though the transferred data seem to arrive.

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Message 2636 - Posted: 27 Jan 2006 | 20:07:43 UTC
Last modified: 27 Jan 2006 | 20:09:42 UTC

*sigh* I give up, I tried several MTU sizes from 1500 down to 1000 but no change so this is probably not the reason.

It gives me a sched_reply with a fresh Host-ID on each contact but CC 4.19 still insists "no scheduler responding".

I didn't have that on any other project server, including vassar.

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Message 2641 - Posted: 27 Jan 2006 | 21:42:40 UTC - in response to Message 2636.

It gives me a sched_reply with a fresh Host-ID on each contact but CC 4.19 still insists "no scheduler responding".

I didn't have that on any other project server, including vassar.


I wonder if 'distance' to the server has any relevance. How far are you from various sites (in ms, as reported by ping or traceroute)? It it's too far, then the request for scheduler contact could time out even if a reply comes back eventually.

This morning I pointed pirates.vassar.edu back to the archive, so anybody still pointing to that old address will no longer get a scheduler response at all.

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Message 2643 - Posted: 27 Jan 2006 | 22:23:45 UTC
Last modified: 27 Jan 2006 | 22:30:50 UTC


3 39 ms 39 ms 39 ms 217.0.72.50
4 131 ms 131 ms 132 ms 62.156.131.182
5 133 ms 134 ms 135 ms so-6-0-0.gar1.Washington1.Level3.net [67.29.172.1]
6 142 ms 132 ms 144 ms ae-32-56.ebr2.Washington1.Level3.net [4.68.121.190]
7 137 ms 140 ms 147 ms ae-1.ebr2.Washington1.Level3.net [4.69.132.30]
8 140 ms 136 ms 149 ms ae-3.ebr2.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.69.132.94]
9 138 ms 134 ms 137 ms ae-22-56.car2.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.68.97.181]
10 136 ms 135 ms 134 ms pos15-0-nycmnyrdc-rtr1.nyc.rr.com [24.29.113.157]
11 135 ms 139 ms 137 ms pos15-0-nycmnyrdc-rtr1.nyc.rr.com [24.29.113.157]
12 139 ms 139 ms 140 ms 24.164.160.41
13 147 ms 149 ms 142 ms 24.164.160.136
14 158 ms 149 ms 154 ms cpe-204-210-158-6.hvc.res.rr.com [204.210.158.6]


The times are not bad, 14 hops isn't a lot either. Berkeley's Galileo is nearly twice the distance (time-wise) and 14 hops too but works fine.

A big ping (1200 bytes) has quite good response times of ~ 230ms

The web browser never had any timeouts on the site either.
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The strangest thing is, that I always get a sched_reply which looks normal and contains the new HostID. CC 4.19 just won't use it

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Message 2644 - Posted: 27 Jan 2006 | 23:16:27 UTC
Last modified: 27 Jan 2006 | 23:56:45 UTC

This is the condition for this error - just in case you didn't keep the ancient source ;-) :

http_op.http_op_state == HTTP_STATE_DONE (not so bad)
http_op.http_op_retval != 0 (this must be the failure detection)
log_flags.sched_ops = true (well, that's only for printing out the message)

I didn't find a flag to force logging of http_op_retval, later clients seem to have it :-/

I'm not using a proxy btw., connection through a Barricade router with builtin ADSL modem

p.s.: Cori, who started this thread, is probably using the same ISP, it's the most used one here in germany.

p.p.s.: I already had this box attached, through exactly the same network config, but decided to detach it when I found zillions of ghost WUs in my result list.

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Message 2645 - Posted: 28 Jan 2006 | 2:51:55 UTC - in response to Message 2643.

The strangest thing is, that I always get a sched_reply which looks normal and contains the new HostID. CC 4.19 just won't use it


What about upgrading to a newer CC?

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Message 2649 - Posted: 28 Jan 2006 | 9:46:56 UTC
Last modified: 28 Jan 2006 | 9:49:21 UTC

*sigh* much work and 4.19 isn't as bloated as later versions - plus I prefer to have control over the scheduling, the new scheduler encroaches into things I prefer to keep in my hands.

I'm not sure if it would be a good idea anyway, they changed the firewall/proxy handling to cURL lately and some of my boxes are behind a Squid with auth - others have trouble with this and I didn't bring other DC programs using cURL through this Squid either so far (wget works though, it uses cURL)

A team mate already gave up trying to bring 5.3.x through a Squid/auth.

I don't think it's a version problem, no trouble with other projects using 502 or 503 on server side.


It's not really a problem for me if I cannot attach - I run without graphics so I'm not too helpful for screensaver developement anyway.

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Message 2656 - Posted: 28 Jan 2006 | 19:45:24 UTC - in response to Message 2649.

I'm not sure if it would be a good idea anyway, they changed the firewall/proxy handling to cURL lately and some of my boxes are behind a Squid with auth - others have trouble with this and I didn't bring other DC programs using cURL through this Squid either so far (wget works though, it uses cURL)

A team mate already gave up trying to bring 5.3.x through a Squid/auth.


Ah, but that is a very worthwhile problem to solve. Perhaps if you worked on it together, or even enlisted a few more helpers...

I'm worried that it would be a waste of time to try to solve a problem that is really due to using 4.19. Or might be. Though I belive Cori is not using 4.19, right?

I've finally had time to catch up on some reading on the boinc_dev list, and it sounds like the behaviour reported here might be related to the "error 500" discussion there. It seems to be caused by a mis-match in use of HTTP 1.0 versus 1.1 between client and scheduler. The proposed fix is to have cURL always use 1.1. So we will be testing that when we upgrade to 5.3.

Meanwhile, I think Ageless already tried out a client built with this change and it cleared up some errors, though it was not the problem of new hosts being created, right Ageless?

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Message 2657 - Posted: 28 Jan 2006 | 19:50:12 UTC - in response to Message 2656.
Last modified: 28 Jan 2006 | 19:51:55 UTC

...Though I belive Cori is not using 4.19, right?


No, I'm using version 5.3.15 meanwhile, it's a development version which supports the AMS testing. ;)
(Before I used the development client version of CPDNBBC 5.3.9.)

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Message 2675 - Posted: 30 Jan 2006 | 10:08:51 UTC

There has been one interesting effect with FaD (which uses cURL) on Linux.

Using the program's proxy setup, the protocols (FaD dumps the HTTP headers) looked as if it didn't even try to authenticate - it did access the proxy though.

Using no proxy setup I got the expected errors.

Using the same environment variables that wget knows did try proxy but did not try to authenticate either. The interesting part here is, that the program hasn't been thought to use environment variables - so it might be necessary to tell cURL not to check the environment in order to make the program settings work or make it check only the environment and ignore the program settings.


It's very likely that the BOINC problems with Squid/Auth are close related.

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Message 2676 - Posted: 30 Jan 2006 | 12:37:20 UTC - in response to Message 2675.

A member of my team seem to have similar problem on SZDG. It happened recently, when Sztaki wasn't supplying work units.
Take a look:
http://szdg.lpds.sztaki.hu/szdg/hosts_user.php?userid=2840

So it seems it is not only Pirates problem.
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Message 2687 - Posted: 30 Jan 2006 | 17:57:26 UTC - in response to Message 2656.
Last modified: 30 Jan 2006 | 17:58:55 UTC

I've finally had time to catch up on some reading on the boinc_dev list, and it sounds like the behaviour reported here might be related to the "error 500" discussion there. It seems to be caused by a mis-match in use of HTTP 1.0 versus 1.1 between client and scheduler. The proposed fix is to have cURL always use 1.1. So we will be testing that when we upgrade to 5.3.

Meanwhile, I think Ageless already tried out a client built with this change and it cleared up some errors, though it was not the problem of new hosts being created, right Ageless?

The original version of 5.3.6 that I had would have HTTP errors on here when for longer out of work. A computer reboot and a reset of BOINC/Pirates wouldn't give me anything else than the HTTP error.

So I tested Carl's 5.3.13 app with forced HTTP 1.1 use and immediately upon restart I would get a scheduler request succeeded message... though the project was still out of work. So yes, for me it cleared that up.

I think this addition propagated into the 5.3.15 I am using, as I still only have scheduler request succeeded and project out of work. It's not reverted back to the dreaded HTTP error yet. :)

But anyone with the continuous error 500/HTTP error should look at this post by Wander Saito on the Seti helpdesk forums. It has cleared up the errors for some who have had them for a long time.
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Message 3106 - Posted: 3 Mar 2006 | 22:49:10 UTC
Last modified: 3 Mar 2006 | 23:00:47 UTC

Looking at the checkin_notes today gives me hope that this problem may have been found and fixed in the CC:


+ David 3 Mar 2006
+ - core client: on scheduler RPC, if our host ID is zero,
+ set RPC seqno to zero also.
+ This avoids a bug where the scheduler creates a new host record
+ with rpc_seqno zero, and then on the next RPC creates
+ ANOTHER host record because the client's rpc_seqno is > 0


We will of course have to wait until it can be tested to be sure this is it.

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