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Questions and Answers : Windows : time to compute too briefly!

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Olli - Ore Mountains
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Message 75 - Posted: 13 Sep 2004 | 12:57:05 UTC
Last modified: 13 Sep 2004 | 12:58:35 UTC

John McLeod VII
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Message 76 - Posted: 13 Sep 2004 | 13:03:55 UTC

Not quite certain what the question is, but this project is currently handing out extremely short WUs. Usually less than 5 min / WU.

Olli - Ore Mountains
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Message 77 - Posted: 13 Sep 2004 | 13:21:40 UTC
Last modified: 13 Sep 2004 | 13:33:26 UTC

Heffed
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Message 79 - Posted: 13 Sep 2004 | 18:36:43 UTC

I have noticed the same thing. I'm assuming the deadlines are so short because the WUs take almost no time to compute, they don't think it would take long to return the results. But like you said, if you are running other projects, you are almost guaranteed to miss the deadline.

They are still in very early testing stages right now, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Vorik
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Message 81 - Posted: 13 Sep 2004 | 21:49:11 UTC - in response to Message 79.

> I have noticed the same thing. I'm assuming the deadlines are so short because
> the WUs take almost no time to compute, they don't think it would take long to
> return the results. But like you said, if you are running other projects, you
> are almost guaranteed to miss the deadline.


Well, I do not think there are many people who run only pirates@home which sends out work just occasionally.

John McLeod VII
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Message 82 - Posted: 14 Sep 2004 | 0:56:54 UTC - in response to Message 81.

> > I have noticed the same thing. I'm assuming the deadlines are so short
> because
> > the WUs take almost no time to compute, they don't think it would take
> long to
> > return the results. But like you said, if you are running other projects,
> you
> > are almost guaranteed to miss the deadline.
>
>
> Well, I do not think there are many people who run only pirates@home which
> sends out work just occasionally.
>
>
Some of their developers are probably running only Pirates. I know that I am running several others.

memnoch
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Message 83 - Posted: 14 Sep 2004 | 1:34:53 UTC - in response to Message 82.
Last modified: 14 Sep 2004 | 1:35:50 UTC

> > > I have noticed the same thing. I'm assuming the deadlines are so
> short
> > because
> > > the WUs take almost no time to compute, they don't think it would
> take
> > long to
> > > return the results. But like you said, if you are running other
> projects,
> > you
> > > are almost guaranteed to miss the deadline.

Granted that a "normal" project shouldn't have such a short deadline, certainly not less than or equal to the pre-emption cycle time, but possibly the BOINC CC scheduling policy should also be looked at a little more carefully. The CC needs to make sure that WU's get crunched and reported by their deadline. Resource shares can be re-balanced later by "simply" not downloading any new work for that project until other projects have had time to catch up. That should prevent projects from abusing clients with lots of short deadlines.

Profile groucho
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Message 205 - Posted: 8 Oct 2004 | 18:41:01 UTC

The report deadline is still just a couple of hours. Why don't you change it? It is difficult enough to get a P@H wu, but once you get one, it's even more difficult to return it on time.

Profile groucho
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Message 254 - Posted: 26 Oct 2004 | 21:38:14 UTC

Is there someone from the P@H team taking a look at the forums???? This question about short deadlines has been around for some time. Is somebody going to answer it?????

Profile Rusty
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Message 256 - Posted: 27 Oct 2004 | 13:11:48 UTC - in response to Message 254.

> Is there someone from the P@H team taking a look at the forums???? This
> question about short deadlines has been around for some time. Is somebody
> going to answer it?????

Yes, we do read the forums, and it's very valuable to have people telling us what they see from "out there". We can't respond to every post, and in fact the great thing about the forums is that users can share info and help each other. But I'll try to explain why the workunits are so short.

We are not crunching, we are testing the code. We are testing new versions of the application (even if you don't see a difference in the screensaver) and we are testing server configuration and other "behind the scenes" things. We only send out a small batch of work to see how it does, and we want to get a response back fairily quickly if there are errors. For example, a file was deleted accidentally the other day so a whole batch of work failed because the file could not be downloaded. That showed up fairly quickly and we corrected it, but other errors may only show up at the end of the run. We don't want to wait 2 weeks to find out about it.

It's been extremely valuable to have a pool of machines to run our tests. Even if your machine is busy crunching for SETI or LHC, someone's machine pickups up the work and sends it back within the deadline. Or if not, we get to see that what happens next is working.

We did extend the deadllines to over 2 hours so that the 1 hour scheduler cycle would have more chance of getting something. We might extend the deadline further as needed, or make it shorter as part of our testing. It won't get as long as SETI just because we are not doing the same thing. And if your machine is crunching for SETI or LHC then it's doing useful work anyway.

Pirates is a test, and a very valuable way for us to test things without anybody thinking that we are doing serious production. If you want to be ready for helping with production computing for Einstein@Home then please make sure you are signed up with the APS for notification. All I can say right now is that progress is being made on the real Einstein@Home, but nothing is open to outside users yet. When outside users are to be included they will be recruited from the APS mailing list. Be sure you have signed up!

And thanks as always to all the Pirate crew for making your computers available to us. The credit you get on the scoreboard is no way near close to the true recognition you should get for letting us use your computers for this project.

John McLeod VII
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Message 258 - Posted: 29 Oct 2004 | 2:03:46 UTC - in response to Message 256.

> > Is there someone from the P@H team taking a look at the forums???? This
> > question about short deadlines has been around for some time. Is
> somebody
> > going to answer it?????
>
> Yes, we do read the forums, and it's very valuable to have people telling us
> what they see from "out there". We can't respond to every post, and in fact
> the great thing about the forums is that users can share info and help each
> other. But I'll try to explain why the workunits are so short.
>
> We are not crunching, we are testing the code. We are testing new versions of
> the application (even if you don't see a difference in the screensaver) and we
> are testing server configuration and other "behind the scenes" things. We
> only send out a small batch of work to see how it does, and we want to get a
> response back fairily quickly if there are errors. For example, a file was
> deleted accidentally the other day so a whole batch of work failed because the
> file could not be downloaded. That showed up fairly quickly and we corrected
> it, but other errors may only show up at the end of the run. We don't want to
> wait 2 weeks to find out about it.
>
> It's been extremely valuable to have a pool of machines to run our tests.
> Even if your machine is busy crunching for SETI or LHC, someone's machine
> pickups up the work and sends it back within the deadline. Or if not, we get
> to see that what happens next is working.
>
> We did extend the deadllines to over 2 hours so that the 1 hour scheduler
> cycle would have more chance of getting something. We might extend the
> deadline further as needed, or make it shorter as part of our testing. It
> won't get as long as SETI just because we are not doing the same thing. And
> if your machine is crunching for SETI or LHC then it's doing useful work
> anyway.
>
> Pirates is a test, and a very valuable way for us to test things without
> anybody thinking that we are doing serious production. If you want to be
> ready for helping with production computing for Einstein@Home then please make
> sure you are signed up with the APS for notification. All I can say right
> now is that progress is being made on the real Einstein@Home, but nothing is
> open to outside users yet. When outside users are to be included they will be
> recruited from the APS mailing list. Be sure you have signed up!
>
> And thanks as always to all the Pirate crew for making your computers
> available to us. The credit you get on the scoreboard is no way near close
> to the true recognition you should get for letting us use your computers for
> this project.
>
>
It always seem to take about 6 to 12 hours for any of my machines to get around to the Pirates WU. Once the CPU actually gets them, they don't take that long. The CPU scheduler does not attempt to take deadlines into consideration. If it is at all possible, a 24 hour deadline would be appreciated. The download error reports would still come back immediately. I understand that 2 weeks is out.

The Astro Desk
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Message 494 - Posted: 12 Dec 2004 | 4:08:05 UTC

Simply crank up the resource share on the Pirates project to a ridiculously high share in comparasion to the other projects. So if your other projects are in the low 100s, put pirates up to a share of 1000.

This does not become an issue because A.) The WUs are very small, and B.) if you are very concerned about Pirates preempting your other projects you wouldn't be running it. =)

Best,

David
Project Blue Book (PBB) D.C. Group
http://egroups.com/group/projectbluebookseti
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